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synthetiser
Neuling
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed 30. May 2018, 15:25

Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Wed 30. May 2018, 15:35

Hello, and first of all many thanks for the great work.
I just started using runalyze, and really like it. It's too bad that it'll not be fully open source anymore, but I understand the concern.
One of them is the source of income through premium account. I don't think that'd be a nice move. But I really understand the fact you don't want to "sacrifice yourself" for runalyze, and really need incomes.

My suggestion is to try to get monthly incomes using a crowd membership platform such as patreon.com.
I really think that the runalyze community is enthusiastic enough to make it successful, especially if you explain that it permits to avoid a "premium" system, and at least it deserve a try (very easy to launch).

Thanks
Synthetiser
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nokodemus
Runalyzer
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat 5. May 2018, 15:20
Location: Österreich / Austria

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Thu 31. May 2018, 12:29

In general i'd support this suggestion.
Patreon or a similar platform could generate another nice source of income, besides the PayPal donations which already are available.

But ... if i'm right e.g. Patreon also indicates some kind of "pay something to get something", as one of Patreon's basics are advantages for the so called "Fans" who donate through Patreon.

So you'd either have to create new Patreon-exclusive content/functions or you might have to cut down functionalities of non-Patreon users of Runalyze ...
Sounds like a kind of "Premium light" doesn't it?

Don't get me wrong, i think it's a great idea, but i'm afraid it would also be at least as difficult to realize ...
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synthetiser
Neuling
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed 30. May 2018, 15:25

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Fri 1. Jun 2018, 17:53

Thanks for the answer,
Yes, they present it like this. But it's very generalist, and can be just "pay something to keep runalyze without premium", or just to make it continue to exist (I'd pay for it).
And it can have milestones such as more developments manpower, maybe going back to opensource or whatever relevant. I already backed some projects with this kind of philosophy. My favorite successful one is pepper and carrot's comic https://www.patreon.com/davidrevoy

The goal in this example is just to get a comic, with eventually more and more professionalization. And the comic is readable and totally libre. Patrons have their names on the comic and some exclusive stuffs, such has tutorials. But to tell the truth 95% of people does not back it for this.

You have other examples which are more or less successful, but with the community around runalyze I'm sure it deserves a try!
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nokodemus
Runalyzer
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat 5. May 2018, 15:20
Location: Österreich / Austria

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Thu 7. Jun 2018, 15:34

Hi there :)

Alright, without necessary advantages for donators or cutting down features this would absolutely make sense.
I think there's a good chance for some additional bucks for Runalyze funds.

Finally the creators of Runalyze will have to decide whether they'd like to go for this possibility.
I wonder why they haven't yet shared their opinion about this.

btw: nice Comic project :)
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User avatar
laufhannes
Core developer
Posts: 753
Joined: Mon 29. Jul 2013, 20:59

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Thu 7. Jun 2018, 17:14

nokodemus wrote:
Thu 7. Jun 2018, 15:34
Finally the creators of Runalyze will have to decide whether they'd like to go for this possibility.
I wonder why they haven't yet shared their opinion about this.

Mainly, because I don't think that we want to discuss business plans in detail here. ;)
It's not that we want to keep our plans secret, but there's much more to think about when trying to set up a plan that will pay all our bills.
We definitely read this topic and are thankful for your ideas, but a full answer would be too much for this place.

In short: I personally don't see the big difference between the current situation (donations via paypal) and the suggestions from above. Why should users, that don't see a reason to donate so far, start to donate via Patreon? Recurrent donations are already possible. It may get a little bit easier with something like Patreon, but I guess that will only add a few percent.
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miro
Runalyzer
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu 4. Jan 2018, 22:10

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Sun 10. Jun 2018, 22:03

Hi Guys,

have you already thought of using kickstarter for new features? E.g. start a kickstarter project for "trainer mode" and as soon as enough money (enough to implement the feature) has been raised, you start implementing the feature. Of course, you would have to advertise these projects also on the runalyzer site, so that enough traffic is seeing this. Maybe a hitlist of open kickstarter projects for runalyze or something.

Just an idea.

Thanks
Michael
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mipapo
Administrator
Posts: 1351
Joined: Mon 29. Jul 2013, 20:26
Location: Kiel
Contact: Website Facebook Twitter

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Sun 10. Jun 2018, 22:49

miro wrote:
Sun 10. Jun 2018, 22:03
Hi Guys,

have you already thought of using kickstarter for new features? E.g. start a kickstarter project for "trainer mode" and as soon as enough money (enough to implement the feature) has been raised, you start implementing the feature. Of course, you would have to advertise these projects also on the runalyzer site, so that enough traffic is seeing this. Maybe a hitlist of open kickstarter projects for runalyze or something.

Just an idea.

Thanks
Michael
No, we won't do something like Kickstarter. And in the end it would be only a "one time payment" which is not enough to "live" from that project
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synthetiser
Neuling
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed 30. May 2018, 15:25

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Mon 11. Jun 2018, 16:19

Hi everybody,
First of all, I really glad that this idea is taken in consideration, I really hope that it'll be useful. I really respect and appreciate your consideration and your great work.

Firstly, let me comment your remark @laufhannes
It's pragmatically and technically true, donations via paypal/patreon should be the same. But in the facts it's not. I cannot justify or really explain why. But I can try just to describe the "why". There are several points, but there's a keystone: the public is sportive people, and, a prori, most are not geek/informatics users/developer/'whatever that make them understand the current donation system importance... In consequences:
  • A person has to think "I should support it" to do so. The point is that most people is used to free services and never think about the "why it's free". I personally did because I'm taking part in the "libre" world, but I know that most people never do it. And it's not clear on your service that you need it, we just have a tiny "support" link at the bottom. Your donation system is very austere and discrete, and never gets people’s attention.
  • The donation that you use is paypal, which is technically perfectly fine (and even less expensive than a patreon-like systems). But it has a very professional aspect and philosophy. In most people minds it's not done for casual and individual money exchanges (still because they don't know/care much). Patreon tries to communicate in a way to let people think that it's easy, trustful, for individuals, done for them, everybody/anybody uses it, with a specific and fancy page in which you explain why you need it, is on-trend, etc. Not very pertinent arguments, but arguments you are sensible to when you technically don't know much about the donation problematic. It's purely marketing, and that's why it works.
  • A lot of donator are already on patreon like systems and donate only through these. It's my case because I'm lazy and because people have to maintain a specific feed that let me understand a bit where my money is gone.
So in brief: marketing to a non much informed public.

May I now push a couple of arguments for why I hope for a non-premium system:
  • Runalyze is not anymore fully open source
  • Runalyze may lose the "premium" system
Then, in which fundamental point will runalyze be different from another tracking service? Promise that you won't use the data in an unknown code? Better service for the base user since the premiums will provide your resources? Even if it's non for benefits but just to maintain it, it can become critical at some point.
I'm probably wrong, but my main fear is that, slowly and naturally, you'd tend to another tracking service.

Just to finish this endless reply, I would like to complete my suggestion with a couple of new ideas, especially for the "pay something to get something..." side
  • The patron site has an API. I didn't take a look deeply but I guess that you can take out the "who has paid". It can be interesting that the backers have a kind of indicator, such as bronze/silver/gold coin, beside his forum pseudo. I know that you already read everything, but it can add a weight on patron opinions and give a kind of reconnaissance. You can just do it by hand, without the API BTW, it can include paypal donors. But it's harder to updates regularly I guess.
  • Still on the API, but harder to implement. A voting system based on who is paying how much. For instance, you gain a vote per dollar. Then when you have to settle features priorities, you can let people "put" their "money vote" on a specific one. It has the double interest to let you know what people want, and to allow people who want something specific to try to contribute to push it. Still a reconnaissance for the patrons.
  • For "big backers", you can propose to give access to the source for own instantiation without specific support. And for "very big backers" you can add a support for servers installation/debug. Still in the example done before (comics) an editor that prints and sells it in shops (Glénat) backed 950$, which can be taken in consideration.
I don't know if these ideas are pertinent or correspond to your philosophy, but I really hope that it feeds the debates among the developers.

Thank you again for your answer, I hope it'd be useful, and anyway continue the good job ;)
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listrahtes
Neuling
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu 15. Aug 2019, 11:02

Re: Idea of source of incomes instead of "premium" accounts

Fri 16. Aug 2019, 10:29

Just to continue the idea of monetarisation.

Whats so bad about a premium account? You want something you pay for it. I dont get the problem some have with it.

Its also a sign of respect that you value what someone does and that he has not to ask for donations but gets the money up front.

Some features seem to be cost sensitive as I have now learned and any company needs security in financial planning which is guaranteed with a constant stream of monthly payments and if its a little cheaper doing a 1year subscription they can even plan a year up front.

So I do support a business model similar to most others like strava, trainingpeaks etc. It works.

I would just suggest upon implementation to lower the monthly fee until its developed further
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