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Analysis of runs per interval, not total

Posted: Thu 17. Nov 2016, 15:06
by henkkramer

First of all, apologies for not speaking German.

I would like to know if it's possible, or if it could be developed that for the analysis tool the heart rate and paces could be split into the intervals instead of just the total of the session. For example below an interval session that I did:
intervalsession.png (136.23 KiB) Viewed 2377 times
intervals.png (63.47 KiB) Viewed 2377 times
pace zones.png
pace zones.png (374.24 KiB) Viewed 2377 times
In this situation In the analysis tool it will show up as a 54 minute session with a pace of 4:11, while for the training it's important that I trained 15 minutes on ~3:05 min/km and the resting periods at ~4:40-5:00. Actually I never ran at 4:11 in this situation, but the average is 4:11.

Over a longer period I'm very interested in seeing how much I trained at which speeds. Both for recovery and speed purposes.

Is this already possible? Else my suggestion would be to use the lap pace in the analysis.

The same applies for the heart rate analysis. The average heart rate of the total session is used instead of the heart rates per lap/zone.

Re: Analysis of runs per interval, not total

Posted: Thu 17. Nov 2016, 15:28
by laufhannes
English is fine, there's nothing to apologize for ;)

Thanks for your detailed post and thoughts. We are aware of this problem and we have a ticket at Github:

So far, we did not decide how to store these values in the database. The detailed analysis of how much time someone spent in a specific zone during an activity requires the complete data array to look at. For a single activity, this is not a problem at all, but talking about hundreds of activities, it's too much to process 'live' each time a user wants to see this analysis.

Our main problem is how to set these zones. It's a big overhead to store the exact histogram (e.g. 130bpm: 67s, 131bpm: 14s, ...), but how to set these zones? For pace: how large should these zones be? 0:15/km? What's with people using min/mi instead of min/km? They won't get the same 'nice' zones. Talking of heart rate, it's even worse. Should it be every 5bpm? Every 10bpm? Every 20bpm? Or should they be based on %HRmax instead? Or even %HRreserve? The latter ones are not consistent over time.

In addition: these zones are not the same for all sport types. For cycling and running there are clearly different speed zones required.

Using something that's not consistent over time or configurable by the user requires a complete recalculation of all these values if the user decides to change his settings. So far, we are not prepared to run jobs like these in the background.

The 'suggestions' I made for this issue, so far, are:
- heart rate zones are probably valid for all sport types
- power zones are valid for all sport types (only relevant for cycling, I guess)*
- pace zones should be individual for sport types

In addition, definitions for these zones and respective limits should not be overcomplicated. Long-term analysis is thought to give the 'big picture' of long-term changes in one's training. It does not matter that much whether a zone ends at 4:00/km or 4:05/km (or at 90%HRmax or 92%HRmax). It's just important to use enough zones.
* That's what I posted at the issue, but I think they are different for running than for cycling.

Re: Analysis of runs per interval, not total

Posted: Thu 17. Nov 2016, 16:07
by henkkramer
Thanks for the clarification. Looking at the ticket and the suggestion I can see that it's more difficult than I assumed it to be. Would it be an idea to store the lap time + pace + hr (and for cycling; power) seperate from the main data in the database so that when the analysis tool is ran it'll only check those fields. This will only require users to use lap times for the intervals instead of having you to calculate it from the activity.

Re: Analysis of runs per interval, not total

Posted: Tue 20. Nov 2018, 07:17
by orhan
I can see that it is quite a difficult development but I would also like to emphasize the need for it. I was really surprised to see the monthly heart zone percentages calculted on the average of the activity. It would not be surprising to see it in other running apps but runalyze is the one that take cares of such details gently.

I would like to make sure that %80 of my overall acitivities are done in easy zones and those who follow 80/20 type running methods like me definitely need to see what percentage of the exercise is done in specific zones.

Re: Analysis of runs per interval, not total

Posted: Tue 20. Nov 2018, 13:42
by JoelH
Wie wäre es wenn man zumindest die Aktiv und Ruhe Werte zur Aktivität speichert? Das je nachdem was sowieso schon gespeichert wird. max. 4 Werte mehr.
Dafür wäre das Diagramm schon deutlich aussagekräftiger ohne dass der Overhead jeden Rahmen sprengen würde. Und zur Berechnung würde sich die Datenmenge zwar verdoppeln, aber das dürfte jetzt auch nicht so ausufernd sein.